Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

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Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Jonathan Ryshpan
Just upgraded from f25 to f26. Most programs run better, but scrollbars no longer have arrows at their upper and lower ends. System Settings used to have a function to control this, but it seems to be gone, both in native KDE and Gnome applications. How are scrollbars now controlled in KDE?

Thanks - jon


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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Tom Horsley-5
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 13:16:32 -0700
Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:

> but scrollbars no
> longer have arrows at their upper and lower ends

I guess KDE is copying GTK which also seems to think
arrows are anathema. I used to be able to put this
in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css:

.scrollbar {
-GtkScrollbar-has-backward-stepper: 1;
-GtkScrollbar-has-forward-stepper: 1;
-GtkRange-slider-width: 15;
-GtkRange-stepper-size: 20;
}

But that also no longer works.

I really wonder why they don't just get rid of the scrollbar
completely. If you are looking at a big file and you so much
as touch the scrollbar thumb it jerks to some new position
hundreds or thousands of lines away, so you have to use
the keyboard for all scrolling anyway.
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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Samuel Sieb
On 07/30/2017 01:41 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> I really wonder why they don't just get rid of the scrollbar
> completely. If you are looking at a big file and you so much
> as touch the scrollbar thumb it jerks to some new position
> hundreds or thousands of lines away, so you have to use
> the keyboard for all scrolling anyway.

Why would you ever use the arrows?  And why would you use the thumb for
anything other than general location in a large file?  Do you have a
mouse without a wheel or a touchpad that doesn't do scrolling?
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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Ahmad Samir
In reply to this post by Jonathan Ryshpan
On 30 July 2017 at 22:16, Jonathan Ryshpan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Just upgraded from f25 to f26. Most programs run better, but scrollbars no
> longer have arrows at their upper and lower ends. System Settings used to
> have a function to control this, but it seems to be gone, both in native KDE
> and Gnome applications. How are scrollbars now controlled in KDE?
>
> Thanks - jon
>
>

AFAICS, the option to control that is still there in systemsettings ->
application style -> widget style -> configure. I use the Breeze
style.

$ rpm -q plasma-systemsettings
plasma-systemsettings-5.10.1-1.fc26.x86_64


--
Ahmad Samir
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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Jonathan Ryshpan
In reply to this post by Samuel Sieb
On Sun, 2017-07-30 at 14:06 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:

> On 07/30/2017 01:41 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > I really wonder why they don't just get rid of the scrollbar
> > completely. If you are looking at a big file and you so much
> > as touch the scrollbar thumb it jerks to some new position
> > hundreds or thousands of lines away, so you have to use
> > the keyboard for all scrolling anyway.
>
> Why would you ever use the arrows?  And why would you use the thumb for
> anything other than general location in a large file?  Do you have a
> mouse without a wheel or a touchpad that doesn't do scrolling?

Scrolling using the wheel on my mouse is a little funky on some windows,
particularly in Firefox: the text jumps around a little and decorations
(generally unwanted but present nonetheless) don't move as they ought to.
Up till recently I did have a mouse without a wheel, which I liked, but
such mouses(?) are no longer easy to get, and I have got to like using
arrows.
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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Doug

On 07/30/2017 06:27 PM, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:

> On Sun, 2017-07-30 at 14:06 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>> On 07/30/2017 01:41 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>>> I really wonder why they don't just get rid of the scrollbar
>>> completely. If you are looking at a big file and you so much
>>> as touch the scrollbar thumb it jerks to some new position
>>> hundreds or thousands of lines away, so you have to use
>>> the keyboard for all scrolling anyway.
>> Why would you ever use the arrows?  And why would you use the thumb for
>> anything other than general location in a large file?  Do you have a
>> mouse without a wheel or a touchpad that doesn't do scrolling?
> Scrolling using the wheel on my mouse is a little funky on some windows,
> particularly in Firefox: the text jumps around a little and decorations
> (generally unwanted but present nonetheless) don't move as they ought to.
> Up till recently I did have a mouse without a wheel, which I liked, but
> such mouses(?) are no longer easy to get, and I have got to like using
> arrows.
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Have you considered a trackball?  I like the Kensington optical
trackball. I use the one without the scroll device cirumscribing the
ball, since I consider the
ball sufficient, but you might want the scroll device. These are not
expensive, and they take up a lot less room on a crowded desktop. I
really despise mouses (mice?).

--doug
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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Tim-163
In reply to this post by Samuel Sieb
Allegedly, on or about 30 July 2017, Samuel Sieb sent:
> Why would you ever use the arrows?  And why would you use the thumb
> for anything other than general location in a large file?  Do you have
> a mouse without a wheel or a touchpad that doesn't do scrolling?

Not on KDE, but when window scroll bars work normally, I do find that
it's convenient to:

Scroll through some pages with a mouse wheel, but that gets painful on
the fingers with very long pages.

Sometimes it's convenient to click on the scroll bar, and drag it up and
down with the mouse, instead, for rapidly scrolling through long things.

Sometimes it's convenient to click in the space above or below a scroll
bar to page through a file (which can't be done when a scroll bar is set
to jump to an absolute position in the file, as it will jump to a point
that you cannot possibly predict).

Occasionally it's convenient to click on the arrows either side of a
scroll bar to slowly scroll through something, for those moments where
something is just off the edge and you don't want to let go of the mouse
and reach for the keyboard.  But single-step up and down clicks are
generally more useful to setting values in configuration (e.g. how many
copies to print), than page scrolling.

And that latter point emphasises a fundamental problem with the WIMP
GUI, that it's inconvenient and annoying to have to go back and forth
between keyboard and mouse.

Having to deal with scroll bars on trackpads is even worse.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64
(always current details of the computer that I'm writing this email on)

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is
no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages
posted to the mailing list.



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Re: Fedora-26: KDE Scrollbars no longer have arrows at their ends

Stephen Morris
In reply to this post by Jonathan Ryshpan
On 7/31/17 6:16 AM, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
> Just upgraded from f25 to f26. Most programs run better, but
> scrollbars no longer have arrows at their upper and lower ends. System
> Settings used to have a function to control this, but it seems to be
> gone, both in native KDE and Gnome applications. How are scrollbars
> now controlled in KDE?

This has been an ongoing issue from F25 and does not occur with native
KDE applications (for example, Dolphin) but occurs in both Gnome and KDE
with GTK (I think it is GTK applications, the obvious one for this issue
is Thunderbird) applications. From my experience with this and actually
working around it, the issue is theme specific. There are themes will
display the arrows on scrollbars and there are themes that do not. At
the moment I am using the Breeze theme for GTK applications and that
does not display the arrows on the scrollbars, but it did not display
the arrows in F25 either, irrespective of whether you were using Gnome
or KDE with GTK applications, but you could cycle through the installed
themes and find one that did display the arrows.

I went to the extent of taking the Breeze them and manually modifying
the css styles to specify the colour scheme I wanted to use, and to turn
on the arrows, but I have not quite got it working correctly in all
circumstances yet (this is its ability to display the colors I want
rather than its ability to display arrows).


regards,

Steve


>
> Thanks - jon
>
>
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