Dual screen

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Dual screen

Patrick Dupre-5
Hello,

I have 2 monitors (Samsung)
One is old (11 years) with a resolution 1600 x 1200 (primary)
and the other one, I just bought it, resolution 1920 x 1080 (secondary)
But they look very different.
The old one, display very sharp characters, the new one display very rough
characters.
This effect is less pronounced with images.

There something that I need to adjust beyond the the display setting?

Thank.

===========================================================================
 Patrick DUPRÉ                                 | | email: [hidden email]
 Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
 Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale           | |
 Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12                   | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann                 | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===========================================================================
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Re: Dual screen

Fred Roller
I run dual screen on my laptop.  If memory serves; 3 things may have an impact.  First set your new monitor to 1600 x 1200 and see if it clears up, I seem to remember something about the ratio having an affect on resolution 1.33:1 vs 1.5:1 respectively for your monitors.  If this is the case then the resolutions might need/want to match.  The other is in the monitor menu itself. I don't recall what but I do recall some monitors have settings which affect resolution.  Finally, it may just be the quality of the monitors, something beyond your control.  I have seen both, good picture quality monitor designed for graphic work and color matching and a $100 special used more for just cli use in administration trying to be the former.  This is affected from the pixel-per-inch count from the manufacturer vs. dots-per-inch resolution in software for which there is a difference, though usually invisible to us.  Gnome has a tweak tool for high resolution, gnome-tweak-tool from yum.  This article may help: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2911509/how-to-make-linuxs-desktop-look-good-on-high-resolution-displays.html 

-- Fred

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Re: Dual screen

Patrick Dupre-5

 
===========================================================================
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: [hidden email]
Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | |
Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===========================================================================
 
 
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 2:11 PM
From: "fred roller" <[hidden email]>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Dual screen
I run dual screen on my laptop.  If memory serves; 3 things may have an impact.  First set your new monitor to 1600 x 1200 and see if it clears up,
The old monitor has alway been working fine in 1600 x 1200 (4:3)
 
I seem to remember something about the ratio having an affect on resolution 1.33:1 vs 1.5:1 respectively for your monitors.  If this is the case then the resolutions might need/want to match.  The other is in the monitor menu itself. I don't recall what but I do recall some monitors have settings which affect resolution.  Finally, it may just be the quality of the monitors, something beyond your control.  I have seen both, good picture quality monitor designed for graphic work and color matching and a $100 special used more for just cli use in administration trying to be the former.  This is affected from the pixel-per-inch count from the manufacturer vs. dots-per-inch resolution in software for which there is a difference, though usually invisible to us.  Gnome has a tweak tool for high resolution, gnome-tweak-tool from yum.  This article may help: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2911509/how-to-make-linuxs-desktop-look-good-on-high-resolution-displays.html 
 
Changing the windows scaling, works, but it just change the scaling, ie, makes every things bigger.
 
Actually, I also have a laptop in 1920 x 1080, and  the view is sharp.
It seems that running a 1600x1200 and a 1920x1080 monitor is not very compatible for the 1920x1080 (or
second screen).
 
 
-- Fred
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Re: Dual screen

Fred Roller


On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 9:37 AM, Patrick Dupre <[hidden email]> wrote:

 
===========================================================================
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: [hidden email]
Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | |
Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===========================================================================
 
 
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 2:11 PM
From: "fred roller" <[hidden email]>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Dual screen
I run dual screen on my laptop.  If memory serves; 3 things may have an impact.  First set your new monitor to 1600 x 1200 and see if it clears up,
The old monitor has alway been working fine in 1600 x 1200 (4:3)
 
I seem to remember something about the ratio having an affect on resolution 1.33:1 vs 1.5:1 respectively for your monitors.  If this is the case then the resolutions might need/want to match.  The other is in the monitor menu itself. I don't recall what but I do recall some monitors have settings which affect resolution.  Finally, it may just be the quality of the monitors, something beyond your control.  I have seen both, good picture quality monitor designed for graphic work and color matching and a $100 special used more for just cli use in administration trying to be the former.  This is affected from the pixel-per-inch count from the manufacturer vs. dots-per-inch resolution in software for which there is a difference, though usually invisible to us.  Gnome has a tweak tool for high resolution, gnome-tweak-tool from yum.  This article may help: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2911509/how-to-make-linuxs-desktop-look-good-on-high-resolution-displays.html 
 
Changing the windows scaling, works, but it just change the scaling, ie, makes every things bigger.
 
Actually, I also have a laptop in 1920 x 1080, and  the view is sharp.
It seems that running a 1600x1200 and a 1920x1080 monitor is not very compatible for the 1920x1080 (or
second screen).
 
 
-- Fred
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 My set up is a split resolution same as yours.  Mostly I did adjustments.  It's a bit of task, not bad, but once you have your resolution the way you like then adjust software settings, i.e. larger fonts etc etc.  Most software I think is geared toward 1280 x 800 older monitors maybe geared to the newer default 1600 x 1200; so some adjustments are necessary to make it look right in the higher resolutions.  Worth the time I think.  my second monitor is a 35" tv on hdmi.  That is a lot of real estate so took a little work and it has been worth it.

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Re: Dual screen

Fred Roller
... also, look to the Accessibility settings of the OS.  Tell it you are hard of sight, this will help with global settings across the OS and should make most of the adjustments you are looking for in the rest of your software.

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Re: Dual screen

Patrick Dupre-5
Hello,
 
The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor configuration.
It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent Asus Motherboard).
 
The new monitor says that it is running with a resolution 1920x1080@60Hz.
I guess that it may be correct if I check on the pictures, but the bizarre thing is that
the characters are just difficult to read, like if there is a lack of resolution.
I can switch to 1366x768.
 
I do not know what to do.

 
===========================================================================
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: [hidden email]
Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | |
Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===========================================================================
 
 
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 5:37 PM
From: "fred roller" <[hidden email]>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Dual screen
... also, look to the Accessibility settings of the OS.  Tell it you are hard of sight, this will help with global settings across the OS and should make most of the adjustments you are looking for in the rest of your software.
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Re: Dual screen

stan
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 22:25:19 +0100
"Patrick Dupre" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor
> configuration. It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent
> Asus Motherboard).

This doesn't seem right.  Have you checked on their website?

> The new monitor says that it is running with a resolution
> 1920x1080@60Hz. I guess that it may be correct if I check on the
> pictures, but the bizarre thing is that the characters are just
> difficult to read, like if there is a lack of resolution. I can
> switch to 1366x768.
> I do not know what to do.

There was a conversation here about 6 months ago about the introduction
of a different level of font hinting and a different font optimizer that
many people found problematic.  That is probably where your
problem, and your solution, lies.

The details have faded for me, but I think there is a setting that can
be increased to use more hinting, and it is still possible to use the
old font optimizer by specifying a setting different than the default.

At least that should send you in the right direction.
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Re: Dual screen

Fred Roller
In reply to this post by Patrick Dupre-5
| The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor configuration.
| It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent Asus Motherboard).

Normally, any PC to Monitor adjustments will be in the Display settings or some such.  Someone more knowledgeable could even tell you some of the advance stuff in config files, monitor profile, and such.  The monitor itself should have a "Menu" button or access to a menu.  Owner's manual would tell you how to access the menu.  It is here that you may find a setting which could help you.

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Re: Dual screen

Joe Zeff-2
In reply to this post by stan
On 02/17/2018 04:06 PM, stan wrote:
> There was a conversation here about 6 months ago about the introduction
> of a different level of font hinting and a different font optimizer that
> many people found problematic.  That is probably where your
> problem, and your solution, lies.

Do you happen to remember the program's name?  If so, it would be a
great help to anybody who needs it.
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Re: Dual screen

stan
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:18:59 -0800
Joe Zeff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you happen to remember the program's name?  If so, it would be a
> great help to anybody who needs it.

It's a package, not a program, and it turns out to be freetype.  They
switched default font rendering, and turned off hinting.

Here is some relevant information from the thread begun by Heinz Diehl.

"""
for those who love razorsharp fonts just like me but got the new v40
interpreter coming with freetype-2.7 enforced on them when installing
F26: the good old v35 interpreter is still there (and I hope it will be
forever). You can use it by setting the environment variable

 FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=35

If you also want subpixel rendering, which now is disabled by default,
you can dig into the foption.h file in the config directory of the
freetype sourcecode, uncomment the option and recompile.

I have never been able to understand why people like the blurry and
muddy Micro$oft-like font rendering... gaah.. Now we have to hack the
source to get rid of that crap.

https://tinyurl.com/ybf3fkwv
"""

"""
> where are you setting this?  

Global environment variables belong into /etc/profile, and local ones
into .bash_profile in your home directory. Here's the diff to
re-enable subpixel rendering (simply uncommenting the option):

diff -urN a/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h
b/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h ---
a/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h 2016-12-11
07:53:49.000000000 +0100 +++
b/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h 2017-07-13
20:51:26.727210939 +0200 @@ -122,7 +122,7 @@ /* This is done to allow
FreeType clients to run unmodified, forcing     */ /* them to display
normal gray-level anti-aliased glyphs.
*/ /*
*/ -/* #define FT_CONFIG_OPTION_SUBPIXEL_RENDERING */ +#define
FT_CONFIG_OPTION_SUBPIXEL_RENDERING
"""

"""
> where are you setting this?  

If you aren't using wayland, session-wide environment variables can be
set in scripts added to the /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/ directory.
"""

"""
> to do something similar in wayland.  

By exporting the env var in ~/.bash_profile and possibly in a script
in /etc/profile.d/*.sh; have a look at:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736660#c63
"""

"""
freetype-freeworld on rpmfusion.org has subpixel rendering enabled.

http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/26/Everything/x86_64/os/repoview/freetype-freeworld.html
"""
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Re: Dual screen

stan
In reply to this post by Joe Zeff-2
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:18:59 -0800
Joe Zeff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do you happen to remember the program's name?  If so, it would be a
> great help to anybody who needs it.

In thinking about this a little more, I wonder if fred doesn't have the
right of it.  Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
at the same time must play havoc with font selection.  Maybe it's taken
care of automatically by the desktop.  What happens with laptops that
use an external monitor that's a different size than their built in
screen, especially larger? Do they have this font discord?
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Re: Dual screen

Tim-163
Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:
> Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> at the same time must play havoc with font selection.

Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.

You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).

Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).

You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.

Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
specifically intended for terminals.

Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).

And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels.
VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.


--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 4.14.16-200.fc26.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Jan 31 19:34:52 UTC 2018 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
There is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see
the messages posted to the mailing list.

The mindset of software designers:  You know that feature that you, and
many thousands of other users, found useful?  We removed it, because
we didn't like it.  We also hard-coded the default settings that you
keep customising.
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Re: Dual screen

Ahmad Samir
In reply to this post by Fred Roller
On 18 February 2018 at 02:07, fred roller <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...]
> Normally, any PC to Monitor adjustments will be in the Display settings or
> some such.  Someone more knowledgeable could even tell you some of the
> advance stuff in config files, monitor profile, and such.  The monitor
> itself should have a "Menu" button or access to a menu.  Owner's manual
> would tell you how to access the menu.  It is here that you may find a
> setting which could help you.
>

I have a samsung monitor and using the buttons on the monitor itself,
and there's a "Sharpness" setting.

--
Ahmad Samir
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Re: Dual screen

Tim-163
Allegedly, on or about 18 February 2018, Ahmad Samir sent:
> I have a samsung monitor and using the buttons on the monitor itself,
> and there's a "Sharpness" setting.

That's an edge/detail enhancement feature, that over-emphasises the
sharper edges of picture content, some monitors allow you to do the
opposite, too (soften the picture).  It depends on the monitor as to
whether "normal" is at the zero position (an enhance-only mode), or is
somewhere in the middle of the range (soft/sharp controls).

You want the display to be driven properly, rather than try and
artificially crispen it up.  You get nasty artefacts with artificial
detail enhancement.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 4.14.16-200.fc26.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Jan 31 19:34:52 UTC 2018 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
There is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see
the messages posted to the mailing list.

Television should really come with an intelligence knob.  I've tried
adjusting the brightness, but it didn't help.
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Re: Dual screen

Patrick Dupre-5
In reply to this post by Tim-163
> Subject: Re: Dual screen
>
> Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:
> > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.
>
> Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
> ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
> generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
> should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
> computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
> you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
>
> You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
> number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
> sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
> point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
> as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
>
> Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
> generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
> screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).
>
> You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
> rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
> using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
> resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
> results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
> lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.
>
> Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
> text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
> for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
> different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
> ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
> particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
> specifically intended for terminals.

By default, I use
Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
Documents: Sans Regular 11
Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to full)
Antialiasing: Grayscale
Scaling factor: 1

> Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
> own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
> have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
> clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
>
> And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
> clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels.
> VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
> the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.
>
I tried several things but without real success.

The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the fonts are sharpe.
The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and it is connected to the DVI port by a cable
(DVI -> HDMI).
Indeed, I do not have much choice (no VGA on the new monitor, no HDMI on the old monitor)
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Re: Dual screen

Wolfgang Pfeiffer
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:43:35 +0100
"Patrick Dupre" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Subject: Re: Dual screen
> >
> > Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:  
> > > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.  
> >
> > Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
> > ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
> > generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
> > should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
> > computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
> > you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> >
> > You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> > difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> > monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
> > number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
> > sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
> > point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
> > as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> >
> > Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
> > generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
> > screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).
> >
> > You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
> > rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
> > using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
> > resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
> > results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
> > lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> >
> > Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
> > text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
> > for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
> > different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
> > ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
> > particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
> > specifically intended for terminals.  
>
> By default, I use
> Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
> Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
> Documents: Sans Regular 11
> Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
> Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to full)
> Antialiasing: Grayscale
> Scaling factor: 1
>
> > Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
> > own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
> > have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
> > clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> >
> > And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
> > clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels.
> > VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
> > the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.
> >  
> I tried several things but without real success.
>
> The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
> The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the fonts are sharpe.
> The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and it is connected to the DVI port by a cable
> (DVI -> HDMI).

For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and
xrandr, if you don't have them already installed, and try the
instructions on the page below for the monitor that does not work.

Please note that this hopefully might work both for mini-DPI and HDMI
connections.

Please note also that this might not work on wayland: try X11 if you
can ...

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845#c15

Good luck!
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Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

Wolfgang Pfeiffer
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 23:11:54 +0100
Wolfgang Pfeiffer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
> to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and
                                                                                  ^^
wrong: should say: cvt

Sorry ..

> xrandr, if you don't have them already installed, and try the
> instructions on the page below for the monitor that does not work.
>
> Please note that this hopefully might work both for mini-DPI and HDMI
> connections.
>
> Please note also that this might not work on wayland: try X11 if you
> can ...
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845#c15
>
> Good luck!



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Re: Dual screen

Patrick Dupre-5
In reply to this post by Wolfgang Pfeiffer
>
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:43:35 +0100
> "Patrick Dupre" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > Subject: Re: Dual screen
> > >
> > > Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:  
> > > > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > > > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.  
> > >
> > > Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
> > > ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
> > > generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
> > > should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
> > > computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
> > > you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> > >
> > > You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> > > difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> > > monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
> > > number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
> > > sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
> > > point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
> > > as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> > >
> > > Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
> > > generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
> > > screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).
> > >
> > > You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
> > > rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
> > > using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
> > > resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
> > > results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
> > > lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> > >
> > > Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
> > > text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
> > > for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
> > > different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
> > > ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
> > > particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
> > > specifically intended for terminals.  
> >
> > By default, I use
> > Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
> > Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
> > Documents: Sans Regular 11
> > Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
> > Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to full)
> > Antialiasing: Grayscale
> > Scaling factor: 1
> >
> > > Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
> > > own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
> > > have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
> > > clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> > >
> > > And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
> > > clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels.
> > > VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
> > > the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.
> > >  
> > I tried several things but without real success.
> >
> > The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
> > The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the fonts are sharpe.
> > The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and it is connected to the DVI port by a cable
> > (DVI -> HDMI).
>
> For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
> to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and
> xrandr, if you don't have them already installed, and try the
> instructions on the page below for the monitor that does not work.
>
> Please note that this hopefully might work both for mini-DPI and HDMI
> connections.
>
> Please note also that this might not work on wayland: try X11 if you
> can ...
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845#c15
>

xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm
   1366x768      59.79 +
   1920x1080     60.00    50.00    59.94*   30.00    25.00    24.00    29.97    23.98  
   1920x1080i    60.00    50.00    59.94  
   1280x720      60.00    50.00    59.94  
   1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
   832x624       74.55  
   800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32  
   720x576       50.00  
   720x576i      50.00  
   720x480       60.00    59.94  
   720x480i      60.00    59.94  
   640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    60.00    59.94  
   720x400       70.08  
DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 408mm x 306mm
   1600x1200     60.00*+
   1280x1024     75.02    60.02  
   1280x960      60.00  
   1152x864      75.00  
   1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
   832x624       74.55  
   800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25  
   640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    59.94  
   720x400       70.08  


The only bizarre thing that I see here are teh sizes:
This is correct:
DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 408mm x 306mm
but
HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm
is not correct:
the dimensions are 520mm x 290mm

I tried
 xrandr --output DP-1 --auto  --output HDMI-1 --mode 1920x1080  --rotate normal  --right-of DP-1
and
 xrandr --output DP-1 --auto  --output HDMI-1 --mode 1920x1080i  --rotate normal  --right-of DP-1
but , I do not see differences.
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Re: Dual screen

Ed Greshko
On 02/19/18 07:49, Patrick Dupre wrote:


Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?

> xrandr
> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
> HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm
>    1366x768      59.79 +
>    1920x1080     60.00    50.00    59.94*   30.00    25.00    24.00    29.97    23.98

I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of the monitor connected?

From the xrandr man page....

     If  invoked  without  any  option, it will dump the state of the outputs,
     showing the existing modes for each of them, with a '+'  after  the  pre‐
     ferred modes and a '*' after the current mode.

So, the monitor seems to be reporting that its native resolution is 1366x768 but not
currently connected at it.


>  
>    1920x1080i    60.00    50.00    59.94  
>    1280x720      60.00    50.00    59.94  
>    1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
>    832x624       74.55  
>    800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32  
>    720x576       50.00  
>    720x576i      50.00  
>    720x480       60.00    59.94  
>    720x480i      60.00    59.94  
>    640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    60.00    59.94  
>    720x400       70.08  
> DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 408mm x 306mm
>    1600x1200     60.00*+
>    1280x1024     75.02    60.02  
>    1280x960      60.00  
>    1152x864      75.00  
>    1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
>    832x624       74.55  
>    800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25  
>    640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    59.94  
>    720x400       70.08  

--
A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out


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Re: Dual screen

Patrick Dupre-5

>
> Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?
Yes
>
> > xrandr
> > Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
> > HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm
> >    1366x768      59.79 +
> >    1920x1080     60.00    50.00    59.94*   30.00    25.00    24.00    29.97    23.98
>
> I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of the monitor connected?

HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm
   1366x768      59.79 +
   1920x1080     60.00*   50.00    59.94    30.00    25.00    24.00    29.97    23.98  

Hence, it is running in 1920x1080

It is a T24E310EW Samsung

> From the xrandr man page....
>
>      If  invoked  without  any  option, it will dump the state of the outputs,
>      showing the existing modes for each of them, with a '+'  after  the  pre‐
>      ferred modes and a '*' after the current mode.
>
> So, the monitor seems to be reporting that its native resolution is 1366x768 but not
> currently connected at it.
>
>
> >  
> >    1920x1080i    60.00    50.00    59.94  
> >    1280x720      60.00    50.00    59.94  
> >    1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
> >    832x624       74.55  
> >    800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32  
> >    720x576       50.00  
> >    720x576i      50.00  
> >    720x480       60.00    59.94  
> >    720x480i      60.00    59.94  
> >    640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    60.00    59.94  
> >    720x400       70.08  
> > DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 408mm x 306mm
> >    1600x1200     60.00*+
> >    1280x1024     75.02    60.02  
> >    1280x960      60.00  
> >    1152x864      75.00  
> >    1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
> >    832x624       74.55  
> >    800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25  
> >    640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    59.94  
> >    720x400       70.08  
>
>
> --
> A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out
>
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